#bg3 discussion

[an-excellent-choice]

I don't think a lot of people realize that Gale gunning to get the crown and become a god is him lashing out.

Gale wanting to be a god isn't about godhood at all. It's his worth, he wants to rub it in Mystra's face that he doesn't need her. This is obvious if he meets with Mystra before the boat ride scene where you convince to not pursue godhood. In this scenario Gale is visibly and loudly pissed on how Mystra abandoned him.

He always seems so in control that people seem to miss that this attempt of a power grab is him lashing out to Mystra is similar to Astarion's grabbing and stabbing Cazador multiple times.

[shadowstarion]

i cannot believe i saw the take “it’s weird for straight women to be attracted to bisexual men who act openly queer” in reference to astarion sexuality discourse

straight women can date bi men and vice versa…? the qualities we associate with queerness in men can be attractive to women…? are we saying straight women should dislike their bi male partners’ queerness and discourage them from displaying those qualities…?

[mischiefwife]

Hey, think twice before supporting the BG3 Stardew mod.

Saw this nice looking Stardew Valley mod with BG3 characters, pretty quickly knew something was off when you see Halsin/Astarion/Rolan front and center with no mention of Wyll at all.

Then we get this whopper of a cry post, maybe suggesting they can't be anti-black because they're not white? They can't show misogyny cause they're women? They can't be blamed at all because they're just polling their PATREON votes? Fucking do better. Can't even hide behind the usual excuse that it's a free fanwork, it's not.

Fandom's got a racism and misogyny problem. Step up and draw the line with these creators crying victim when asked 'where's Wyll?' (And yes I checked, the replies are 90% positive and 10% where's Wyll, where's the women) when you've already fully developed your random minor npc first. Team members being made uncomfortable translates to being called out for contributing to a lil' racism.

The misogyny hydra and the racism in fandom runs deep i know, but for the love of fuck can we push back against it?

Or you can side with the mod's supporters (this is one of the devs actually lol). Who post things like this.

And the creators don't say a fucking thing at all about it, they just keep playing victim. It would be so easy to approach this system with a SMIDGEN of respect, just acknowledging the racism at all. Seriously BG3 fandom. Demand better.

I don't give a shit if they're the most popular, there's also a REASON why Wyll is not. But if you want to just eat this shit up and contribute making your fandom shitty and uninviting, by all means.

[miriamforster]

Maybe it is because I am An Old, but so much Baldur’s Gate 3 discourse sounds like people arguing over how to play with a dollhouse.

And I think that’s because we’re not used to video games where WE write the story. So when options we don’t like are added, or we see people choose one thing over another, it feels like those things become canon.

But they don’t. It’s a dollhouse.

Some people want to do a wedding with their tiny teddy bears.

Some people want their Barbies to fight to the death in ritual combat.

Some people want Thanos to put on an apron and take care of babies.

Some people want to make all the dolls kiss naked and have a doll orgy.

You can be a superhero and save everyone, or a cruel god who demands murder and sacrifice.

(Have you seen little kids play with dolls? Absolutely vicious stuff.)

The whole point is that you can play however you want, and make what stories you want.

Yes, it’s frustrating that some toys don’t have as many accessories, or that other people make your favorite doll do weird shit that you hate.

And I DO think media analysis has a role here. We should be aware of content and biases, just like we are with what kids get representation with toys and dolls.

And obviously we get attached to them! They become our comfort objects, and it can feel like a personal attack when someone hurts them.

But YOUR characters are still yours. Everyone gets their own set here. No one is stealing your Astarion doll and giving him a terrible haircut, no one is throwing your Gale action figure out the window to see if he flies. Those are other people’s toys.

Yours are safe and right where you left them. It’ll be okay.

The dollhouse is for everyone.

[serpenlupus]

About Wyll and his horns (and what they mean)

Let's say I was writing a part of my Tav's story with Wyll directly connected to the dialogue he has during the tiefling party, and while struggling with this bit, I've realized there's quite a few misconceptions floating around. I felt compelled to add information to the table that might clear them, so here we go.

First, what exactly happens to Wyll when he disobeys Mizora in act one? Well, he doesn't get turned into a devil, he certainly doesn't get turned into a tiefling, he's not a half fiend, not a demon, none of that. Wyll stays human, but he has horns and red eyes (and other features we can't see on his model as of now).

(Everyone has their race listed, Wyll's remains "Human")

This is because when a warlock fails to uphold some part of their contract they can suffer a certain number of consequences, Wylls is “The character grows horns, a tail, or some other devilish features that can't be removed by any means short of divine intervention. As long as these marks persist the character detects as a fiend when subjected to Detect Evil and Good spells or similar magic.” ( from Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus, page 214)

And I’ve come across some people that think it wasn’t so bad of a punishment, that he was being racist towards the tieflings, or just not being justified in being upset after having his body forcibly changed against his will. I think they are missunderstanding just how insidious Mizora’s actions were, and here I just want to give some context to maybe bring a better understanding to the situation. Your conclusions are up to you.

Gonna start by using a not exact analogy, but I think it’s going to make the explanation easier. Stick with me for a minute.

Remember Jack Sparrow in Pirates of the Caribbean? He had a branded “P” on his arm that marked him as a pirate. A murderer, robber, criminal, etc. in the eyes of the society he was a part of. What did Jack do to earn the branding? (if you don’t know this I suggest you look up the “people aren’t cargo mate” scene) He refused to transport slaves and later freed them, and Beckett had him marked as punishment.

Then, in the first movie, he saves Elizabeth, a woman he didn’t know, from drowning. Right after however, when Norrington sees he has a branded “P”, he’s like “alright, off to jail with you, and then hanging”, no other option crosses his mind. Again, Jack doesn’t know Elizabeth, isn’t indicated to think he is going to be rewarded for helping her, he just sees a drowning person, sees that no one else is going to help, and chooses to save them. That is a pretty selfless/good aligned thing to do, for no other reason that he was the one able to do it, yet the branding in his arm overrides any good action he could ever do, marking him as a criminal for execution and no further thought.

In a way, that’s what Mizora did to Wyll; she forever visibly branded him as someone that has made deals with devils, and that in the world of DnD is a VERY BAD THING. Personally I really like the mod that gives him more devilish features, but at the same time I think there was something clever about choosing to leave him looking more human. He can’t be confused with a tiefling, he doesn’t have the ears, the claws, the tail, all those features that characterize them. He looks kind of uncanny, and that would be like a red flag for anyone in that world. (Beyond the already existing hate for tieflings that I’m not gonna tackle on here because it’s a complicated thing that deserves its own post). And Wyll wants to do good, he wants to help people, to be a positive force in the world so, so badly. This dude got abducted by a nautiloid, got tadpole’d, and the first thing he did right after that was come across the Tiefling refugees and be like “Oh you need help? No worries let me teach you self defense. Oh you being attacked by goblins? Let me blast them real quick”. His way of saying fuck you to all the awful things that have happened to him is being aggressively good and kind. Mizora knows this very well, wants to see him suffer for her amusement, wants to remind him he can't escape her claws, so her choice of punishment was to forever taint his future interactions with mistrust and suspicion. Some people can go real fast from “oh thank God they saved me” to “oh no, are they gonna rob me, are they trying to trick me, are they in cahoots with the ones that attacked me first?” just because of outward appearances. Especially in DnD world. And that deserves its own conversation, but we're focusing on Wyll here.

(Mizora, when I catch you Mizora)

“Well, maybe he shouldn’t have made a deal in the first plac- - “ He was seventeen, alone, preyed upon by Mizora and put in an impossible situation. Please PAY ATTENTION to the story you’re witnesing.

Anyway.

About the tieflings. I know it’s easy to think his words can be derisive towards them, but it’s less about the horns and more about his body being changed against his will. Imagine instead that he got half his face burned, or something that disfigured him. I think his feelings at the moment were closer to that, and yeah they are pretty insensitive words to say to someone with a similar condition (horns or disfiguration), but when feelings are fresh and raw like that it’s easy to say insensitive things. Not saying it was ok for him to say them, but there was no malice in his words. I’ve also seen some people share that they think Mizora wanted to change him more to make him unrecognizable to his original self, the Wyll Ravenguard kid, and I think there is some truth to that too. She wants to make sure that Wyll remembers that he belongs to her, there's no question to that.

(MIZORA, WHEN I CATCH YOU MIZORA)

Whether the Tieflings refugees would feel unsettled by Wyll or not? Yes. In a way, they would. From reasons aside from the ones I explained above, remember that these specific tieflings come from Elturel. If you didn’t pass the History check or don’t remember, Elturel is a city that was literally ripped from the land and dragged to Avernus, First layer of hell (it left a hole on the ground and everything) because their mayor made a deal with the Archdevil Zariel some decades back in the timeline. He sold the souls of all its citizens and the city itself.

This was probably one of the worst times of their lives. Some even got captured and forced to participate in the blood War, like Dammon as a mechanic. And after Elturel got returned to the surface, the tieflings lost their homes because they reminded the other citizens of the literal Hell they’d just gone through, and they kicked them out. And remember, they met and saw Wyll as a human, and then saw him with horns. It’s not unreasonable to think that by looking at him they would be reminded of all the events that led them to the awful situation they’re in. Because of someone that was making deals with devils, just like Wyll. Even if his situation is completely different. And Wyll knows that, that’s why he tells you the tieflings are unsettled by him and chooses to stay away during the party.

It was never just about the horns.

And I know Wyll calls himself a devil but I think it’s because it’s the closest thing he looks as; devils are a whole different race with their own intricacies, although humans can be turned into devils ONCE their souls go to Avernus and they start climbing the power hierarchy there (Mizora and Raphael are cambions/ half-devils btw, which is a different thing,  there are plenty of videos exploring those details more in depth).

Do I think Larian should have made some of this information clearer/easier to access? Maybe? but to be fair, it's a game focused and dedicated to a crowd that was already somewhat familiar with the source material, that blew up waay out of what they originally expected to reach. Hopefully they’ll add some clarifications like they did to other quests. 

Anyway these are my two cents to the conversation, have a nice day, and don't hesitate to add your two cents if you feel like it!

[fourraccoonsinacoat]

Just something that's been swirling around in my mind regarding Astarion, and I don't think I've seen much discussion about it.

I see a lot of pro-ascended peeps say that when Astarion stays a spawn, he stays a spawn because the player character convinces him to, and that Astarion truly wanted to ascend. They say this is proven by what spawn Astarion says if you breakup with him after defeating the brain - he gets upset and talks about "everything he sacrificed."

I'm not here to argue spawn vs. ascended - though I have a dissertation about the cycle of abuse and fear-based decision making ready to go for anyone who wants to seriously argue in favor of the ascended route being healthy.

What I am here to argue, is that maybe someone who literally just a few months ago - if that - escaped their abuser after years of torment, and who just days ago watched that abuser die...maybe that person isn't fully healed and is reacting out of pain and defense.

Maybe that person is still healing and honestly isn't fully sure in that moment if they made the right decision. Maybe that person needs some time to process life altering events, and maybe it will take some time before they are 100% comfortable with the decision they made, eventhough they know it was what was best for them.

Anyone who expects Astarion to be 100% healed and happy with everything at the end of the game has likely never experienced life altering trauma. That shit can take a lifetime to recover from. There's a reason it's life altering...

I'm so damn glad Larian depicts spawn Astarion realistically at the end of the game. He isn't healed, he's healing. Things will trigger him, he'll doubt and second guess himself, and that's okay because that's what happens when you're healing.

His response in that scene just feels real to me. And it sure as hell doesn't say to me that he wished he'd ascended. It says to me that he's still working towards healing, and I think that's really cool that a studio would depict a character so realistically.

[muchtooold2]

I’ve recently discovered the part of the internet deeply devoted to defending Mystra in BG3 and I get she’s a long standing lore character but it feels like we played a wildly different game.

And I just know in my heart of hearts that if Mystra were male and Gale were female I wouldn’t have to keep reading some variation of “well it’s fine she did nothing to stabilize a ticking time bomb in the chest that would have wiped out an entire city because it needs to feed on the weave despite no real evidence this actually hurts her at all” or “actually it’s Gale’s fault he tried to return what he thought was part of her to her because he was an grown adult who should have known better despite the fact she did not tell him and he did not know it would have hurt her and is horrified to learn this in act 3.” Like, this isn’t me woobifying him. I love Gale and know he can be self-absorbed, his ego is big, and if left unchecked his personality leads him to become the literal God of Ambition. But he’s not like a power hungry schemer. His ambition and desire for knowledge (things Mystra likes!) got the better of him and since he is also insecure he decided to try to do an ambitious thing and prove himself to a goddess. He knows and admits that’s on him! But he (and players) are still allowed to be mad at the fact he’s kicked to the curb to maybe blow up a city to learn a lesson Mystra does not bother explaining until she’s literally forced to because he did not kill himself on her command. And people are allowed to find their relationship wildly inappropriate and toxic and abusive because based on the game you play, it is.

I don’t think it’s bonkers to say that in this situation, Mystra—a literal goddess who met Gale when he was probably somewhere between 17-22 years old—was wrong to have a relationship with him, that it was a toxic and abusive one and that is on her as the entity with more power in every way, that she was petty for letting him languish for a year and being willing to potentially let him kill a whole city while he was trying not to die by eating magic shoes, and that telling him to kill himself is a dick move. And people are like “well according to DnD lore she’s just protecting herself and she was only resurrected after he was a teen” are doubly annoying because bg3 doesn’t give a shit about the canon timeline considering Durge would be like…10 if they cared.

And I know it sucks if you like love Mystra in DnD lore and this doesn’t align with her or whatever but bg3’s themes of “hurt people hurt people” and “power over others is something easily abused if you’re careless” also applies to Mystra. With the sort of exception of Selûne, the game also feels pretty clear on the idea that gods Do Not and Cannot Care About You. The game you play is showing a toxic relationship (and I will say she is not as bad as some people say she is, like she is a goddess operating with some blue-orange morality) and if the genders were flipped we would not be having this discourse.

[cinnamonfairyfluff]

*looks up Gale of Waterdeep on tumblr*

Me: "Look at all these pretty arts and memes of my favorite character! Hooray!"

*looks up Gale of Waterdeep on tiktok*

Tiktok: "Gale is awful and annoying! I made my durge chop his hand off! I let him sacrifice himself!"

*they proceed to list all the things they hate about him, consisting of all the neurodivergent coded traits and behaviors he has as a character*

Me, who relates to Gale because of his neurodivergent coding: "🥲 oh... ya'll would hate me too then, huh?"

[preciouslittle-bhaalbabe]

Man, I keep seeing posts of people lashing out at each other over random takes on Astarion. Dadstarion, A!A, Spawn, Bloodweave, random stuff. People get SO mad when opinions differ. I feel like we've lost the plot a little. Headcannons are fun sometimes but if something doesn't work with your headcannon or if someone posts something that challenges your view on things, you don't HAVE to hurl insults at them. We're all strangers. We know nothing about each other. I think we should focus more on celebrating our shared love for this game and these characters instead of going for the throat over trivial things. Just my two cents idk.

[bludermaus]

Ooops Astarion fans on Twitter found out about the Stelmane scene and are shitting on The Emperor and saying they're soooo glad to kill him every time now

Well I'm sorry if my comfort character can't be an elf who disapproves of helping others all the time and is murder-happy even in the end-game after his redemption; at least the squid doesn't disapprove of us doing that because he *wants* us to have allies, he even subtly admonishes you for raiding the Grove when you meet him in Act 3 showing he's not in favor of senseless loss of life

Is it so hard to just ask to be respectful to people's favorite characters? Nobody is saying either of them is perfect, but it's not nice to yuck somebody's yam, people just wanna enjoy their faves without negativity and debate about them all the time

[cheekylittlepupp]

Alright this may sound silly but I’m genuinely asking, how do you guys manage to play a normal tav after experiencing durge?

I feel like the durge storyline is just superior? Not to mention that the romance with Astarion fits so well, like two puzzle pieces connecting.

I won’t spoil much but you can actually become “aeterna amantes” while keeping the ‘good path’ that’s why I picked this name lol both of you empty canvases, both of you truly in love and ready to take on the world together, or… descend into the dark path, chaos, destruction and becoming megalomaniacs.

[an-excellent-choice]

Gale made me realize my favorite romance trope which is a person wanting to give the world to their love and their lover only wanting them.

Gale wanting to become a god to be more for you and Tav rejecting this idea because Gale is enough on his own.

[lemmeurs]

okay. here is my 1600+ words essay on raphael. if anyone would like to adress anything from it, please do but keep it civil! i am so damn invested in this topic, i wanna hear everyone's thoughts

raphael rant

(DISCLAIMER: this essay was not written in order to justify Raphael as a character or any of his actions or intentions. i am completely skipping any point of morality, whether my own or just in general, i simply wanted to somehow try and write my feelings and thoughts down while looking at the whole thing from an objective point of view, analyzing the design of the game, the plotline and his whole persona and just.. idk i wanted to see whether anyone else felt the way i do because i have been going INSANE over this for the past few days)

hi. i have come here today to express my thoughts and feelings on Raphael the cambion and "his final act". this is being randomly and spontaneously written in my notes app so please excuse the absolute chaos that this essay will be (no i won't be rereading it, fuck it we ball) (CONTAINS BG3 ACT III SPOILERS!!)

first of all — i am so beyond devastated that he gets killed. and not just by anyone, he gets killed BY US. THE PLAYER. WE AS THE PLAYER DELIVER THE FINAL BLOW THAT ENDS HIS EXISTENCE. not only is that very upsetting (because come on, hot devil man, obviously i don't wanna kill him??) but it also makes me feel so.. awful. like, everything about this is wrong and i hate the fact that there is no other option.

because let's review the course of the story in the house of hope:

- we barge into his house unannounced, uninvited, while he is absent

- we invade his privacy by entering what's his own personal space (yes, i know he stole it from Hope in the first place but that is not the point here — whatever his devil business is, it's still HIS, you know?? like he is a devil, this is the kinda stuff they do and honestly? i didn't want to stick my nose into it. but obviously i did because tHe sToRy etc etc. but still, it was his own thing that basically doesn't affect the player in any way so TECHNICALLY you dont have to free Hope. you can, if your character's moral compass advises so, but it doesn't affect the main plot.)

- we then proceed to walk around his house freely, lie to his archivist in order to look at the stuff we're already planning to steal

- we meet his personal incubus whom then we have the chance to either use or kill (i fought Haarlep so that's the point of view i'm looking from at this here, in which case i also robbed their corpse) and we rob his safe. and his whole bedroom actually. we read his journals. we use his bath.

- then obviously we go and rob his entire archive which includes all of his most precious possessions

- upon stealing, we slaughter every single creature in his house, fighting our way through to get to Hope's prison

- we then kill the two spectators he has guarding her (they were probably super hard to obtain??) and we just. free his prisoner. because yeah, that is the right thing to do, IM NOT SAYING THAT'S WRONG, but let's say we skip morality for a second, let's just focus on the fact that we have no ulterior motives in freeing Hope. we just wanna mess with HIS business because why not since we're already ruining all of his plans.

- and then we have the audacity to try to leave before he comes back and act like we were never there while his entire house is turned to shit.

now let's look at this list again but this time keep in mind the fact that at that point, he hasn't done A SINGLE THING to us. like, he has never harmed us, he treated us with (let's call it) "respect" and politeness, he was fine with our hesitation towards his deal and was willing to give us time. he was never aggressive towards us, he was never "the enemy".

and now you can say - okay wtf is wrong with you, that man literally admitted his intention of conquering the worlds, enslaving all mortals and basically becoming the tyrant of all while also most likely stealing everyone's souls for his own pleasure.

yes, he did, and yes, that's bad. but just because those were his intentions does not give us the right to do all that shit to him AND THEN KILL HIM. AS IF WE HAD THE RIGHT TO SERVE JUSTICE HERE?? YEAH HIS PLANS ARE EVIL BUT IT IS NOT UP TO US TO DICTATE HIS CONSEQUENCES. HIS PLANS WOULD ONLY SUCCEED IF WE GAVE HIM THE CROWN IN THE END, SO JUST- DON'T?? LIKE DO YOU GET WHAT I MEAN. IM NOT TRYING TO JUSTIFY HIS ACTIONS OR INTENTIONS, BY ALL MEANS. i'm just trying to express how weird this all made me feel because not everyone decides to play as the selfless, lawfully good hero of all, protecting the world from all evil, ever! this is roleplay, afterall!

and them obviously he comes home. he is furious, as he should be. but mostly he's betrayed because, as weird as it may be, he trusted us. he admitted to growing "quite fond of us, in his own way". he thought we were some weird sort of.. acquaintances? friends maybe? (again, i know most of our relationship with him is mostly just him manipulating us but still, it's quite clear he wasn't expecting this betrayal) and we just barged in there and disrespected him in the worst way possible. so obviously he wants to kill us now and obviously we can kill him since he's just a boss in a game. and that's what we do. and then.. that's it. we're the good guys. we ruined a man's whole career because we needed one of his toys, murdered him in his own house and just left. and we're supposed to be the good guys.

i think the source of my problem is that Raphael is never introduced as evil. we don't meet him as the big bad villain that we know we'll have to kill at some point. i swear to god, at the beginning of act 3 i trusted that man way more than i trusted the Emperor and i was so close to agreeing to his deal just because i felt like i could trust him and he would keep me safe (for some reason, let's blame it on those wonderful eyes of his).

we meet him so early on in the game and he follows through all 3 acts, making it feel like he's gonna be some key character that will matter in the end - turns out, no! we were just supposed to rob and kill him. and that's literally it. talk about wasted potential.

when i first met him i got the "unofficial narrator" vibes from him, as if he was only supposed to seem intimidating and "evil" but you could sense there was so much more to him and i was dying to see how his story would unwrap. i was so ready for a redemption act, a plot twist, anything. man was i disappointed. because how cool would it be if he turned out to be a part of the "gather your allies" quest?? imagine having him as an ally and an ACTUAL friend in the end??

and don't even GET ME STARTED on what the orb in Helsik's shop shows you after you kill him. the fact that he's not even dead yet but ABOUT TO BE DEVOURED BY MEPHISTOPHELES. ABOUT TO BE DEVOURED. BY HIS FATHER. HE. WHAT. THATS THE ENDING HE GETS. and we are the ones that served it to him when he got RIGHTFULLY pissed at us for doing all that shit to him. and im supposed to just be fine with it?? i'm supposed to feel like this was the ending he deserved and i did the right thing??

god what i would give for a different way. idk. striking a new deal with him. saving him from Mephistopheles afterwards. REDEMPTION ARC?? ANYTHING?? NO? THATS IT THEN?

now i know that you dont HAVE to kill him, you can either agree to his deal or just ignore him and the house of hope altogether. but that just defeats the whole purpose of this character?? agreeing to his deal and giving him the crown at the end results in a pretty bad ending and ignoring him means that yeah, you don't have to kill him but you also don't get anything else from him anymore. like he has no other endings, just either death or his big evil plans. and for a game with so many choices and so much branching, it just feels almost weird that that's all he is there for. then why do we meet him in act 1? why does he follow through to act 2? (yeah, astarion, i know, but i cant help but feel like they could have put a completely different way to read his runes there if they didnt want Raphael specifically to help us) WHY ARE WE ALREADY SO USED TO HIM BY THE TIME HE PRESENTS HIS DEAL? if the whole hammer business is the only thing he's in the game for, then we may have as well been introduced to him only in act 3 during the whole Voss quest. but we knew him already and he felt like some sort of a.. friend lets call it? idk. this just does not make sense to me and makes me genuinely so sad.

as i'm writing this, it's the third day after ive completed the house of hope and i literally can not think about anything else. like my mind is just going on and on about this and i cant get over it!! im actually GRIEVING a fictional devil and i dont know what to do with all these.. thoughts.

so now i actually genuinely MISS THAT MF. I MISS HIM. GIVE HIM BACK. I WASN'T DONE AND NEITHER WAS HE. PLEASE PLEASE LARIAN I CAN FIX HIM—

okay i think thats it for now. idk i wrote this so chaotically i already forgot what i said and didnt say. im just. im feeling so many things. im so fucking sad and mad that this is how it ends. rest in peace hot devil man i will never forget you.

[merciawintersageposting]

Me googling “has anyone else had their game crash with no save at Lady Jannath’s estate due to a spooky encounter”: a visual poem.

[dolceaspidenera]

Okay guys, I'm sorry, I'm really sorry, I don't want to stir up drama and this is not why I write this, but I really, really need to get this off of my chest.

Yes, we are back discussing ace/demi headcanons for Astarion.

First thing first: people are allowed to headcanon whatever character they want as whatever the hell they want.

I read a post on here basically saying that Astarion should be the last character to be headcanoned as ace/demi because he is a character who is "reclaiming his own sexuality" - yes, and? Demi or ace people don't do that? Are they somehow exempted from any type of trauma regarding sex? Are we really making these arguments?

My favorite part though ought to be the one about Wyll being the most suited for these headcanons because he prefers "dancing over sex and waits for the marriage to have sex".

Huh.

So glad this is how asexuality is perceived, thanks.

What the heck does having sex after marriage have to do with being ace/demi? Can someone explain it to me?

Look, Wyll is an amazing character with lots of positive characteristics, but he is not an alternative to Astarion and shouldn't be treated that way.

Do you really want to know why lots of people headcanon Astarion as demi/ace? Because he resonates more with them. Simple as that. Not because he is white and Wyll is not, not because of some inherent form of hate or bigotry. He just resonates more.

And do you know why?

BECAUSE PEOPLE UNDER THE ACE SPECTRUM CAN BE VICTIMS OF ABUSE AS WELL.

Because we too wrestle with claiming our own sexuality, because we too experience being oversexualized against our desires.

On top of that, being ace doesn't mean being chaste, a virgin, or someone that necessarily will wait until after marriage to have sex!

You can be ace and embrace your sensuality, you can be ace and love to wear slutty outfits because fuck yes, it's my body and I do whatever the hell I want with it.

Do you know which other incredible sex icons other than Astarion are headcanoned as ace? Freakin' Jessica Rabbit and Barbie (from the 2023 film). You know, the most sexy characters ever. Because guess what? Ace people can be sexy too.

I'm sure the person who wrote the original post didn't have any ill intentions but damn, if you don't know what you are talking about, don't drag ace and demi into your comments.

This is also valid for trans headcanons btw, but I'll leave this whole topic to someone else who has more direct experience on it.

The point is: let people headcanon whatever the hell they want, there isn't a character "more suited", and there are plenty of reasons why people resonate more with a character over another.

Headcanons of Wyll as demi/ace are awesome,

Headcanons of Wyll as allo and very princely are awesome,

Headcanons of Wyll as trans are awesome,

Headcanons of Astarion as demi/ace are awesome,

Headcanons of Astarion as allo are awesome,

Headcanons of Astarion as trans are awesome.

[fourraccoonsinacoat]

One of my favorite pieces of Astarion dialogue is in Act 1 when Tav/Durge asks him what his thoughts are on Raphael's proposal to remove the tadpoles. Astarion says he'd rather sell his soul to a devil instead of going back to Cazador, and Tav/Durge says they have other options. To which our sassy vampire reaponds:

Astarion: Figuring out what's happening to us; confronting a god called the Absolute; and then finding time to kill my old master before he can control me once more? Yes, that's an option. But I wouldn't bet eternity on it.

Cue Act 3.

The Absolute has been thwarted.

The Emperor has fucked right off.

Cazador has been reduced to a bloody lump of viscera and was thrown out with Tuesday's trash.

And Tav/Durge are channeling the incomparable Elle Woods.

"What, like it's hard?"